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Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4

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Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/4/2020 7:48:25 AM
kimbro84

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Joined: 6/4/2020
From: United States
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So frustrated! Puzzle 18 and others...

Is the box technique a necessity to completing these level 4 puzzles? I haven't had to use it on the Level 3 book and finished all of them. But man, these Level 4 puzzles are something else. I am about 50/50 as well through number 18.

I can't figure out if there's something I'm missing. I did figure out that large numbers in 7's are easier than in 6. (i.e. 34 in 7 is missing one combination that makes 11 because 45-34 = 11.

And 39 in 7 has to have a 98763 then either a 5/1 or 4/2 is missing from the final answer because 45-39 = 6.)

I usually write them in the sides which speeds things up quite a bit. So I'll share in case any one is interested :)
33 in 7
Always has 6,2,1,
missing one of these combos
9/3
8/4
7/5

But honestly I'm just trying to figure out...What other techniques are out there other than what you read about on every website and in the front of every kakuro book? It's super frustrating. Box technique has only applied once or twice to Level 3, I haven't seen it work on Level 4 yet.
RE: Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/4/2020 3:28:01 PM
arik_iis

Posts: 223
Joined: 3/16/2005
From: Israel
Status: offline
sorry, but . . . if you can post a screen shot of the puzzle, or point me at where to see it, I might try to help . . .

Thanks'
Arik

RE: Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/4/2020 8:03:18 PM
kimbro84

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/4/2020
From: United States
Status: offline
Here it is :)

I verified the current entries are accurate. The bottom is completely filled in, sorry for the poor picture quality. Thanks for your help in advance! Filling in the answers from the back doesn't fix the "lack of knowledge" I'm missing for future puzzles :)

Attachment (1)

RE: Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/6/2020 6:05:20 AM
hok0003

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/14/2012
From: Australia
Status: offline
Not quick or easy to explain, but I was able to place the 4 to the left of the 5 in the 22 row on the left after some trial and error.

Box technique is probably the way to go though. The six cells where the 13, 36 and 29 columns on the right intersect the 34 and 22 rows will add up to at least 39 (37 + the first digit in each of the 18 and 31 rows) and at most 40.

RE: Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/7/2020 4:31:15 PM
kimbro84

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/4/2020
From: United States
Status: offline
You're my hero! Thank you. I appreciate your time on helping a fellow kakurist become better! :) I have never been successful with the box technique. Maybe my brain just doesn't work that way. By the time I get to where I can box the whole puzzle ends up cordoned off :). Can you help explain the adds on rows and columns?

I've reattached the picture pursuant to your prior message. It sounds like the blue area is where we are focused on adding rows/columns and then the red is the area that we are solving for. But the columns of the 34/22 rows aren't able to be added since there is only 2 blocks for adding columns. I'd love to know your technique on getting this to map out.

Attachment (1)

RE: Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/8/2020 2:19:36 AM
hok0003

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/14/2012
From: Australia
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The red area is correct. I'm adding the last 3 columns for the area covered by red6+blue10: 13+36+29=78. And all the rows except for the 34 and 22 for the blue10+green2 area: 12+10+9+3+7=41.

Subtracting the second from the first removes the blue10, leaving the red6 minus green2 = 37.
Or, red6 = 37 + green2. So it's at least 39.

The 34 and 22 rows will give you the maximum of 40 for red6: 24 on the top, 16 on the bottom.
So red6 can only be 39 or 40, and also green2 can only be 2 or 3.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by hok0003 -- 6/8/2020 2:32:28 AM >

RE: Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/8/2020 4:06:23 AM
kimbro84

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/4/2020
From: United States
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Wow. This is amazing and give me much to think on for other puzzles as well. I am looking forward to evaluating this. I've been looking for a tutorial on the box technique for harder puzzles and it's just impossible to find. I really appreciate your patience walking me through this process. Thanks again!

RE: Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/10/2020 10:18:54 PM
kimbro84

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/4/2020
From: United States
Status: offline
Can anyone recommend any other puzzle types (other than Kakuro) that might help me improve on the box technique? I just can't see it. I think I've been doing them without this technique for so long that it's just not in my brain. I have been trying and trying to find other areas in the other Kakuro's (example attached). Maybe I'll never get it...but recommendations will be much appreciated!

Attachment (1)

RE: Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/10/2020 10:20:55 PM
kimbro84

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/4/2020
From: United States
Status: offline
And another. I just can't see the box technique. So frustrating. Again, any other puzzle type recommendation that would help me improve would be amazing!

Attachment (1)

RE: Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/11/2020 11:14:42 PM
Ahlyis

Posts: 206
Joined: 12/30/2009
From: United States
Status: offline
hok0003... wow!

I have been using that logic on a smaller scale. Mostly just areas with a single "exit" area that I could calculate a value for, whether it be a single or a small number of squares. I never even thought about expanding it the way you did.

Most impressive... and frankly, pretty scary to think there may be Kakuro out there which require that level of logic to proceed.

I will certainly keep it in mind going forward. I just hope I never have to use it. It twists my brain into a pretzel just thinking about trying to apply it!

Anyway, kudos to you. Your explanation was well done and clear enough to follow even if putting it into practice may prove to be a bit harder to accomplish. Thank you for expanding my Kakuro toolbox. :)

RE: Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/14/2020 4:33:59 AM
hok0003

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/14/2012
From: Australia
Status: offline
I have thoughts for the next one, though not box related.

In the red square, either the bottom left is a 6 or it's either 3/4 in which case the top left will be a 6. We also have a 6 in either the top right or bottom right. So no more 6's in those two rows.

The blue circles are all then 1-5, which means the green circles are all 6-9, and then the yellow circles are all 1-5, and so on.

Attachment (1)

RE: Kakuro - Absolutely Nasty 4 - 6/14/2020 7:20:52 AM
kimbro84

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/4/2020
From: United States
Status: offline
Wow...yes, Now I see it. You are fantastic! And thankyou...it wasn't a box technique, it's one I can handle. Super appreciate your insight.

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