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Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step!

 
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Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/18/2021 5:09:11 AM   
conceptisjp

 

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This puzzle is from Conceptis Kakuro (iOS, Android) app.
Kakuro Hard Starter No.16 (Very Hard)
Can someone teach me the next step?
Conceptis JP

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by conceptisjp -- 1/18/2021 5:11:21 AM >
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RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/19/2021 5:58:22 PM   
mig23

 

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Hello:

If you look at the bottom middle area you can get rid of one number in each of the columns with the 13, 29, and 16. This will allow you to place the 9 in the 28 column in bottom left of the puzzle.

(in reply to conceptisjp)
Post #: 2
RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/22/2021 7:44:42 AM   
conceptisjp

 

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Thank you for your posting.
I am sorry.. I tried understanding what you wrote, but it is still hard for me.
Could you attach the image if you can?

(in reply to mig23)
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RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/22/2021 9:36:15 PM   
Ahlyis

 

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I don't understand his reply either. I've tried, but cannot see what he means.

I have a small piece of help, but it isn't much. Row 3, the 21 across cannot have a 1 in the answer. The only way to make 21 from 5 numbers without using 1 is via 2, 3, 4, 5, 7. You can eliminate all 8 and 9 from your possibles.

I'm working this myself on the phone and will see if I can find more.

(in reply to conceptisjp)
Post #: 4
RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/22/2021 10:13:08 PM   
Ahlyis

 

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Found a little bit more...

My previous find will allow you to trim the 26 down in the top right corner to (2, 4)-(6, 8, 9)-(5, 7)-(6, 8, 9) which also eliminates the 4 as a possible from the first position of the 8 across in the top right corner.

Moving on...

The top left corner, 44 down, the first 2 digits will total exactly 10. I don't know what they will be, but it does mean one of the digits will be 6 or greater. You also need a 6 or greater in the 4th, 5th and 6th positions. That accounts for all of 6, 7, 8 and 9. The third position must be 3, 4 or 5. Using that will also limit the possibles for the 27 across starting at that position.

(in reply to Ahlyis)
Post #: 5
RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/22/2021 10:15:32 PM   
Ahlyis

 

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Continuing the previous...

The 14 down at the top of the 5th column cannot be 2-3-4-5 since the smallest the third position can be is a 6. Therefore, it must contain a 1, which can only be placed in the 4th position.

Finally, an actual number entered. :)

(in reply to Ahlyis)
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RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/22/2021 10:30:07 PM   
Ahlyis

 

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Playing more with that 44 down and looking at where the 2-3-4-5 must go, along with what numbers are max/min for positions in the 31 down in column 1 let me put in 6 more numbers, including all 4 in the top left corner.

I'll leave it for you to work out the exact logic, but it's mostly just more of what I did in the previous posts. Let me know if you want an exact logic chain posted for it though.

(in reply to Ahlyis)
Post #: 7
RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/22/2021 10:36:44 PM   
Ahlyis

 

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Actually, those last few pieces have let me complete the entire upper left quadrant to a fuller amount than you have the lower right area so far. I also got a few numbers in the other two corners as well.

Hopefully all of that will be enough to let you finish the puzzle. I won't post any more help until/unless you ask for it.

(in reply to Ahlyis)
Post #: 8
RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/22/2021 11:08:50 PM   
Ahlyis

 

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My final time on the puzzle was just over 1.5 hours. If you will need more help, please ask sooner rather than later. If you ask a month from now, I may not be able to remember what I did. ;)

(in reply to Ahlyis)
Post #: 9
RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/23/2021 12:17:16 AM   
hok0003

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mig23

Hello:

If you look at the bottom middle area you can get rid of one number in each of the columns with the 13, 29, and 16. This will allow you to place the 9 in the 28 column in bottom left of the puzzle.


Not sure if it's what mig23 saw, but with the 16 at the bottom the last row can't be an 8, or you'd get a 7 in the second last row in both the 13 and 16 columns.
Which leads to placing the 9 in the 28 column as suggested.

(in reply to mig23)
Post #: 10
RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/23/2021 12:31:30 AM   
Ahlyis

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hok0003

Not sure if it's what mig23 saw, but with the 16 at the bottom the last row can't be an 8, or you'd get a 7 in the second last row in both the 13 and 16 columns.
Which leads to placing the 9 in the 28 column as suggested.

Ah, I finally get it. The way he (and you) worded it was very confusing to me. It sounded like you both were trying to say that the 9 in the 28 down would be part of the 39 across, which I knew was wrong, but couldn't figure out what you actually meant until I started writing this reply and worked through it again.

Two problems combined to make this impossible at first to understand. First, you left off the step that the 9 gets eliminated from the intersection of the 28 down and 39 across, leaving only one place for it to go on the 28 down. Second, you don't mention that the 28 down requires a 9 as part of any possible combination.

Once I recognized both of those conditions, then your answer made sense. And I agree, is correct.

EDIT: Actually, there is a third missing step which comes before the other 2. You don't make it clear that eliminating the 8 thereby eliminates the 7 from the middle position, leaving 8-9 as the only possibles for both of the last 2 squares of the 39 across. That is what lets you eliminate the 9 (and 8) from the intersection of the 28 down and 39 across.

I mention all of this to hopefully help anyone else reading this follow the logic a bit easier. ;)

< Message edited by Ahlyis -- 1/23/2021 12:38:36 AM >

(in reply to hok0003)
Post #: 11
RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/23/2021 9:30:08 PM   
mig23

 

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Sorry. I just saw your reply now. I was trying to give a minimum amount of info that I thought was needed so you could do the thinking your self. Sorry if it was confusing.

(in reply to hok0003)
Post #: 12
RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/26/2021 9:16:01 AM   
conceptisjp

 

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Thank you everyone for your input.
Attached is an image and here is one advice I got from one of the experts.

Looking at the attached image, let us say we place the red "9"...this would lead to the placement of the blue "8" and "7" of that same row.
This again would force us to continue by placing the blue "9" and "8" in the bottom row.
But now, it would be impossible to build the vertical sum 13 because the remaining candidates 4,5,6 cannot make it.
Therefore, the red "9" must be wrong; on the other hand, the vertical sum 28 (with the wrong red "9") definitely needs a "9" somewhere (since 8+7+6+5 is only 26).
So, the only place for the "9" in that vertical sum 28 is one place higher, see the correct black "9".

Attachment (1)

(in reply to mig23)
Post #: 13
RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/26/2021 6:51:32 PM   
Ahlyis

 

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That's the same result as what mig23 and hok0003 were pointing to, just attacked from a slightly different direction.

(in reply to conceptisjp)
Post #: 14
RE: Kakuro - pls. help me to find the next step! - 1/26/2021 6:56:43 PM   
Ahlyis

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mig23

Sorry. I just saw your reply now. I was trying to give a minimum amount of info that I thought was needed so you could do the thinking your self. Sorry if it was confusing.

To be fair, the only confusing part was exactly where the 9 was being placed. If I had understood where you meant, I would have worked the rest out. Thinking you meant for the 9 to be on the intersection is what threw everything else off.

With a little bit clearer info on exactly where the 9 had to go, leaving the other steps off for the reader to work out would have been fine (imo).

(in reply to mig23)
Post #: 15
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