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RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 7:34:59 AM   
lekahe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cochran57 
Hello?  Moderator?  Leena?
Can we get any encouragement at all here?
Is there any chance that PDF files will come back?
Is there any chance at all that key clicks will go away so I don't have to turn off the sound EVERY TIME I start a new puzzle?
Is there any chance at all that timers will come back?
Is there any chance at all that the web site overall will be laid out in such a way that forum members/moderators won't have to KEEP explaining that the games with solutions are just samples and they have to seek out the heretofore unknow MyConceptis to get the real puzzles?
Is there any chance at all that the amount of Flash content will be reduced on the new site to make it a bit more usable?
Is there any chance at all that the useful menu items at the bottom of every page could be moved to the top so that they're likely to be seen and used?
Is there any chance at all that anyone at Conceptis will actually answer any of these questions?  So far, the only things we've learned in this forum are that there's something new called MyConceptis that is not documented and didn't exist before, but that's where the puzzles have been moved to;  that you have to have the latest version of FlashPlayer; and how to print puzzles (at least for some people).
What about all the unhappy customers?  Do they get ignored?


Sorry, but I have to sleep at times ...
I am trying to encourage but unfortunately I am not having very good success.
The pdf's in the form they were are not coming back. Along the paid website there may be a possibility to get also pdf-packs.
I am not sure about the sounds since I don't hear them now at all. This will be checked.
The timer issue has been noted and I have passed it on. Anyway it won't happen instantly but has to be considered.
The quest for the puzzles has been a surprise to me. The Free Weekly puzzles were not exactly very visible in the old website either, we just knew where to go. Maybe we have to create a navigation guide to old members. The new ones will be directed to the right place very well in this system.
As for the Flash content, times change and Flash is what it is going to be. Java is not an option any more. I miss Leisure Suit Larry I from the 80's, but every time the operating systems get updated we will have programs which can't be used any more. I have been fighting with Vista and Java is crashing it all the time (OK, my fault, I could have waited). The truth is that we live in a world where these systems are getting new versions so fast that we have hard times to adopt. Uncomfortable but unavoidable.
The Menu Items ARE on the top. Look at the beautiful pictures. Clicking them takes you where you want. I did not even notice the links at the bottom....
Someone with more authority will answer the questions but regarding all the e-mails they have received and browser problems they are fixing it will take some time.

And please remember that they are not charging anything for this. This is a step to the new, better version where everybody can choose what they want. I think there are very few people who actually solve ALL the puzzles types.

I hope this gave some answers to your problems,
Leena

(in reply to cochran57)
Post #: 61
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 8:20:19 AM   
angeles

 

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Does anybody else have to log in every few hours?

(in reply to lekahe)
Post #: 62
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 8:49:29 AM   
lekahe

 

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I did have to do that one time yesterday, but otherwise I have been on the site almost all the time.
It is normal on sites where you have to log in that you are automatically logged out after a certain period. I'll pass the question forward to Conceptis.

Leena

(in reply to angeles)
Post #: 63
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 10:54:57 AM   
eileen cox

 

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Another frustrated subscriber here!

I think the new site looks much fresher and more modern - but it is infinitely more difficult to navigate - looks are definitely not everything!

My current gripe is that, because my sight is not wonderful, I have to increase the size of most puzzles.  Previously I could still click on the 'check puzzle' button, but now I have to scroll to the top of the screen and back down again (this is on FAP puzzle)

Another improvement which is far from it's intention, I fear!

(in reply to susyQ)
Post #: 64
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 2:41:28 PM   
susyQ

 

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[/quote]
The quest for the puzzles has been a surprise to me. The Free Weekly puzzles were not exactly very visible in the old website either, we just knew where to go. Maybe we have to create a navigation guide to old members. The new ones will be directed to the right place very well in this system.


Leena,
I think the problem is that we are looking for PUZZLES, so we very logically select PUZZLES from the menu. Unfortunately, that link takes us only to the sample puzzles. Perhaps adding a link from the samples page to the weekly puzzles would clear up the confusion...

(in reply to lekahe)
Post #: 65
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 3:32:38 PM   
unime

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lekahe
As for the Flash content, times change and Flash is what it is going to be. Java is not an option any more ...
The Menu Items ARE on the top. Look at the beautiful pictures. Clicking them takes you where you want. I did not even notice the links at the bottom....

And please remember that they are not charging anything for this. This is a step to the new, better version where everybody can choose what they want. I think there are very few people who actually solve ALL the puzzles types.


Hi Leena,

I'd like to let you know that I am what you might call a "core" customer. I am the guy who does solve all types of puzzles (well, the Maze-a-Pic less often, but all others). I got excited when I Conceptis got serious about presenting "very hard" sudokus, and slightly disappointed when they did not appear every week. I buy puzzle magazines, puzzles books, go to puzzle web sites... We should be on the same side of the table here.

Unfortunately, I feel like you are talking down to us. Lecturing about how "times are changing" and the "flash is what it is going to be". You seem to be ignoring our point about Conceptis' gratuitous of flash content. Unnecessary flash is near the top of the list of bad website ideas and this site is chock full of it. I know it can be hard to accept feedback, but please understand that this is constructive criticism.

As for the menus, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My stomach turns when I see the flash animations on the site. They are highly distasteful to me, especially when they occur without user interaction or linger after my mouse has moved past. Let me repeat that: highly distasteful. Most importantly, the new menus get in my way - so much so that I find it easier to scroll to the bottom of the screen to use the beautiful HTML menus. It's not my site, but Conceptis deserves to know just how strong my gut reaction to this is.

Keep in mind that there is nothing wrong with the Java platform per se. Conceptis' programs had bugs (including memory leaks), but that isn't exactly Java's fault. I run plenty of stable java programs. I'm not saying that switching to Flash programs for the solvers is wrong, just that your justification lacks credibility.

(in reply to lekahe)
Post #: 66
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 3:36:00 PM   
cochran57

 

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Interesting that Java is not an option because new systems always have versions that don't work, and yet one of the first questions answered in this forum was to tell someone that they had to install the latest version of FlashPlayer.  As long as software is updated, there's going to be software incompatibility whether it's Flash or Java or Microsoft Word.

Flash just can't keep up.  I've been doing some Fill-A-Pix puzzles and, when I hold down a mouse button to fill in large sections of the grid, I have to go over the section multiple times or go over it very slowly.  If I don't squares don't get filled in because Flash is not responsive.  This was never a problem with Java.  Flash is aptly named.  It's flashy and it's easy to code in, but that's the only reason it shows up on the web so much.  The reason that Java is used in business applications and Flash isn't is because Flash simply doesn't perform.

(in reply to lekahe)
Post #: 67
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 3:55:50 PM   
cochran57

 

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"And please remember that they are not charging anything for this. This is a step to the new, better version where everybody can choose what they want. I think there are very few people who actually solve ALL the puzzles types."


I'm sorry, in my last post I should have thanked you for your response.  I really do appreciate it, as abrasive and angry as I may seem at times.

I do understand that this is a free service.  I also understand that if you didn't want to attract people to it, you'd just shut it down.  As such, I really don't understand the above response.  Whether anyone does all the puzzle types or not seems to me to be completely irrelevant.  The point that I think most people are trying to make is that Flash, sounds, heavy graphics, and removing features that people liked and used are new, but certainly not better.  And everybody could choose what they wanted on the old site, so what's the difference?

It IS nice that I can check for errors during a Pic-A-Pix session, and it appears that people are taking advantage of the ability to save games and come back to them, but those appear to be the only improvements, at least from a customer standpoint.  I strongly suspect that it's easier to develop, but at what cost to the people who find that what was an intuitive, fast, fun site is now confusing, slow, and much less fun?

Again, thanks for your response.  All of your responses.  I hope that in time things will get better.

(in reply to lekahe)
Post #: 68
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 4:27:17 PM   
gilg

 

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From: Israel
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quote:

ORIGINAL: unime

I'd like to let you know that I am what you might call a "core" customer. I am the guy who does solve all types of puzzles (well, the Maze-a-Pic less often, but all others). I got excited when I Conceptis got serious about presenting "very hard" sudokus, and slightly disappointed when they did not appear every week. I buy puzzle magazines, puzzles books, go to puzzle web sites... We should be on the same side of the table here.



I think we are all on the same side here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: unime

Unfortunately, I feel like you are talking down to us. Lecturing about how "times are changing" and the "flash is what it is going to be". You seem to be ignoring our point about Conceptis' gratuitous of flash content. Unnecessary flash is near the top of the list of bad website ideas and this site is chock full of it.



That is correct. Unnecessary and wrong use of Flash is a popular web design mistake but this website is not one of those cases... :)

The problem with Flash is when it is being abused - used as media container for entire sites as usually done with websites of photographers and designers. This is very bad as Internet is a meta-language and is all, or at least first of all, about html and links. No one ever said Flash is not to be used at all on well made websites. it just need to be used right, or in other words as an element within the page, not instead of the page. Also, Flash navigations are bad for search engines, but this problem has other solutions so you shouldn't worry about it... If you don't like the "Flashy look", colors, animations etc, that's understandable. Some people like clean text and links only designs while others like catchy graphics and this site is graphics oriented (I am sure you'd agree it makes sense... :)) Its a matter of opinion but I think most people prefer the flashy look when it comes to casual game websites. As you say beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

quote:

ORIGINAL: unime

I know it can be hard to accept feedback, but please understand that this is constructive criticism.



Not at all! We expected feedbacks and appreciate comments (when they are constructive and to the point of course). I think most people on this forum know that. Please keep it coming.

quote:

ORIGINAL: unime

As for the menus, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My stomach turns when I see the flash animations on the site. They are highly distasteful to me, especially when they occur without user interaction or linger after my mouse has moved past. Let me repeat that: highly distasteful. Most importantly, the new menus get in my way - so much so that I find it easier to scroll to the bottom of the screen to use the beautiful HTML menus. It's not my site, but Conceptis deserves to know just how strong my gut reaction to this is.



I understand you don't like the animated (header) menu but what do you mean by "the new menus get in my way"? I also like the footer menu very much. Notice it is 100% pure xhtml, no images. Only CSS.

quote:

ORIGINAL: unime

Keep in mind that there is nothing wrong with the Java platform per se. Conceptis' programs had bugs (including memory leaks), but that isn't exactly Java's fault. I run plenty of stable java programs. I'm not saying that switching to Flash programs for the solvers is wrong, just that your justification lacks credibility.



That is absolutely right. Java has always been a fantastic and very powerful platform while Flash used to be a script based environment, but Java has always been not so good when it comes to applications which require high quality graphics. That never did work well with Java, especially not when weight and load time are important. While Java kept its not so good graphic disadvantages Flash went a long way and since the 9 version became a full object oriented language that can make real software. By now you can do with Flash (9) practically anything you can do with Java only it would look 100 times better.

Gil

(in reply to unime)
Post #: 69
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 5:07:14 PM   
gilg

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cochran57

Whether anyone does all the puzzle types or not seems to me to be completely irrelevant.  The point that I think most people are trying to make is that Flash, sounds, heavy graphics, and removing features that people liked and used are new, but certainly not better.  And everybody could choose what they wanted on the old site, so what's the difference?



We took the decision to change from Java to Flash long time ago and for various reasons. Anyway the new games are made of Flash and that is probably not going to change soon. However, I think we are forgetting a few very important facts here:

1. We only had Java games for 3 puzzle families (Pic-a-Pix, Link-a-Pix and Fill-a-Pix). The new site offers online play for those 3 in addition to Sudoku and Kakuro.

2. As all content is free on this site the very least we should be asking from the folks who enjoy it is to BE on our site when they do and watch advertisements. That is how things go on the Internet today. I am sure you know that. However, not just we don't load you with (any!) advertisements we even decoded to invest a lot of effort and provide high quality print capability for those who like solving their puzzles off line. Again, as opposed to our very basic interest to encourage everyone to stay as much time as possible on the site and watch ads.

3. One of the most important differences between the old gaming platform and the new one is that the new one is designed to allow making more and more players for new families with a reasonable effort but with still being able to keep on updating all games with all your comments. This is what they call "long term thinking" so some of it might look a bit strange or wrong at the moment but will be much more understandable in the future. Stay with us and see for yourself.

(in reply to cochran57)
Post #: 70
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 7:03:42 PM   
essoh

 

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I will admit that while I like the new site, I am very disappointed in the print/download.  It was very nice to just right click the link and do "save target as".  I was able to download all the puzzles I prefer to do on paper, open them all in adobe, then copy them into excel to get multiple puzzles on one piece of paper (why waste one piece per puzzle).  This is really going to be a painful process now to open each puzzle individually then "print" it to a PDF to save it, plus I needed to download a program to do it.  Again, very disappointing.

(in reply to lekahe)
Post #: 71
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 7:33:45 PM   
cochran57

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gilg

We took the decision to change from Java to Flash long time ago and for various reasons. Anyway the new games are made of Flash and that is probably not going to change soon. However, I think we are forgetting a few very important facts here:

1. We only had Java games for 3 puzzle families (Pic-a-Pix, Link-a-Pix and Fill-a-Pix). The new site offers online play for those 3 in addition to Sudoku and Kakuro.

2. As all content is free on this site the very least we should be asking from the folks who enjoy it is to BE on our site when they do and watch advertisements. That is how things go on the Internet today. I am sure you know that. However, not just we don't load you with (any!) advertisements we even decoded to invest a lot of effort and provide high quality print capability for those who like solving their puzzles off line. Again, as opposed to our very basic interest to encourage everyone to stay as much time as possible on the site and watch ads.

3. One of the most important differences between the old gaming platform and the new one is that the new one is designed to allow making more and more players for new families with a reasonable effort but with still being able to keep on updating all games with all your comments. This is what they call "long term thinking" so some of it might look a bit strange or wrong at the moment but will be much more understandable in the future. Stay with us and see for yourself.


I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to be dense or obstinate here, but again I just don't understand:

1. The OLD site offered online play, at least for PAP, LAP, FAP and Sudoku (don't know about Kakuro), and the the games worked better and were easier to play then.  No skipped squares when filling in large areas, etc.  So what's the difference?

2. Judging from the comments, the "high quality print capability" seems to be severely lacking.  Again, that was there before (and apparently better) with PDF files, so this seems to be a giant step backwards.

3. I'll stick around and see if things improve, although again I can't see how the new design allows making more and more players when the site is bigger, slower, and less intuitive.  I have no idea how old anyone there is, but it's a pretty safe bet that I've been designing code for end-user use longer than some of you have been alive, so I'm familiar with the concept of long-term thinking.  Some of that includes finding out what your end users want and use and then finding out what's acceptable to them before you add or remove features and then implementing those things, whether the effort is "reasonable" or not. 

At this point, I apologize to the entire community for flooding this forum.  I suppose at this point I've said what I wanted to say repeatedly and there's no use in me whining any more.  Unless I find an actual bug that I can't get around, I won't post anything else.

Thank you for your responses.  I know that folks there are trying, and I appreciate the many years of pleasure that you've provided to me and others.

(in reply to gilg)
Post #: 72
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 8:46:12 PM   
amcraig

 

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We were warned quite some time ago that the site would be changing -- and I feared that we would lose free puzzles completely.  So I'm at least happy that there are still free puzzles, thank you!

(in reply to cochran57)
Post #: 73
RE: New Site! - 5/17/2008 10:26:47 PM   
blatch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cochran57

I've been doing some Fill-A-Pix puzzles and, when I hold down a mouse button to fill in large sections of the grid, I have to go over the section multiple times or go over it very slowly.  If I don't squares don't get filled in because Flash is not responsive. 


This is my number one issue with the site change.  Been doing these puzzles for years and the FAPs are always my favorite.  I don't know if it's because my connection is slower than others, but the extra time it takes to cover the same ground and the doubling back that usually has to be done is frustrating and simply kills the enjoyment of the thing.  On the flip side, I really appreciate that the zeroes and nines can be filled in automatically, which saves on my occasionally aching mouse finger (someday, I may sue you guys for repetetive motion injury).  Unless the speed of this program can be fixed, however, I can't see how I can continue doing these.  Shame.

I'm having some problems with the PAPs as well.  It used to be that when I was completing a row of, say, five black squares, I could cruise through to blacking the sixth square on the same sweep and then click on that last square a second time to complete it with the dot.  Now, when I do that, the first square I blacked becomes the dot leaving the last square black.  This makes no sense, and I can only assume it's a glitch.  If I take a moment's pause before the second click, I get the dot in the right place, but again, it's become more cumbersome.  That's a hard habit to break after having done so many puzzles.

Plus, has the - boy, I don't know what to call this - where the PAP is too big for the screen and it reduces the number menu to a single row that you have to slide to that specific row to see - is that completely gone?  I don't see a function for it, and some of these online puzzles, you have to shrink down so small you can barely read the numbers!  The review puzzle is so large it's simply impossible to get small enough to fit and so it really can't be done online.  Trying to keep the blank squares straight while you're scrolling up and down with the mouse is beyond my ocular ability.  This is too bad, since I like 'em big.  Was there a reason for getting rid of this feature or is it just not possible in the new technology?

Plus, I have to say, load times on just about everything are slower.  Waiting for new pages from the site (while searching for the free puzzles), waiting for the puzzles to emerge and shrinking the puzzles is quite slow.   Even reading the form, which I rarely do, is a slog. 

I haven't tried the LAPs yet (which I usually only do one or two of), but I'll write back if I find anything amiss.

I'd say, unfortunately, while I do like some of the new features, this is turning out to be a net negative for my enjoyment of the site.  Maybe it's a signal from on high that I should use my time for more productive things. 

Thanks for everything you guys have done and all the hours of puzzling pleasure.

(in reply to cochran57)
Post #: 74
RE: New Site! - 5/18/2008 12:02:09 AM   
unime

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gilg
That is correct. Unnecessary and wrong use of Flash is a popular web design mistake but this website is not one of those cases... :)

The problem with Flash is when it is being abused... No one ever said Flash is not to be used at all on well made websites. it just need to be used right, or in other words as an element within the page, not instead of the page.


Hi Gil,

From my perspective the site does abuse flash.

First and formost, it use of flash prevents me from form using the site the way I like to: The menu bar provides me with a useless flash menu when I right click, instead of giving options I truly want (like "open in other tab"); hovering over a menu item should allow my browser to show the target URL (and yes, for your information I appreciate that information), but it cannot do so when flash is used. There is no smooth degradation (e.g. by using a noscript tag) for non-flash browsing. Well built sites should support the expected interaction and offer alternatives for unavailable plugins.

Next, the menu animations continue for a short time after my mouse has left the region of a given item. Maybe you don't see the distraction there, but it is glaring to my eye. Features like that should be strictly optional. Again having a graceful fallback for viewing without flash would fix this.

Of course the worst part of the flash experience for me is that I can't get to the puzzles at all. The flash icons do not show up in my browser (flash content on other sites works fine).

Oh, one more thing: Never say never! IMHO, Flash is not to be used at all on well made web sites, except for applications and media that cannot be rendered practicably in HTML+javascript, and then only sparingly.

quote:


I understand you don't like the animated (header) menu but what do you mean by "the new menus get in my way"? I also like the footer menu very much. Notice it is 100% pure xhtml, no images. Only CSS.


I am going to repeat myself for emphasis. My problem with the animated header is first that it removes functionality from my browsing experience (ability to open pages in other windows or tabs, and removing the URL display from my browser); second that the animations extend past their useful life; and third (this is an addition) that they are too large, forcing me to scroll to see the page content that could easily be accessed with simpler header.

quote:


By now you can do with Flash (9) practically anything you can do with Java only it would look 100 times better.


That's a good one! Flash is limited by design and not a broadly purposed programming environment like Java. Look at the variety of Java libraries and you'll see how small Flash really is.


P.S. In order to send this message, I had to scroll down to get to the Preview and OK buttons

(in reply to gilg)
Post #: 75
RE: New Site! - 5/18/2008 2:12:10 AM   
rbmaven

 

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Maybe this question has been answered but I can't find it!  I love PAPS, but on the new site, I cannot see the count for the columns on the bottom of the screen; they are partially blocked and decreasing the size of the picture doesn't help.  Also, on the color PAPS, I have to constantly scroll up and down to change the color.  If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it.

Also, I personally don't like being able to see the finished picture before I do the puzzle; makes it too easy to "cheat"! 


(in reply to unime)
Post #: 76
RE: New Site! - 5/18/2008 4:12:12 AM   
Talihoe

 

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From: United States
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Sounds like you're looking at the sample puzzles.

The puzzles accessed from HOME and PUZZLES icons at the top of the page are sample puzzles only.  Just like the old site had samples showing the solutions.  The weekly puzzles are in MY CONCEPTIS.  Click on any of the puzzle categories.  They do not show the solutions until you've worked it.

Patti

(in reply to rbmaven)
Post #: 77
RE: New Site! - 5/18/2008 7:03:20 AM   
amcraig

 

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I have sometimes found that the PAPs switch and mix up after I click enter. 

If I'm filling in squares, and fill in part of a row or column, when I let go, it seems to want to keep going -- and then when I click again, it reverts and does the opposite, puts a couple of dots in instead of the fillins -- or vice versa, if I'm filling in a group of dots - it then puts in some squares, but not exactly where I was working.  I have to navigate somewhere else to ge able to click again.  It's a pretty strange bug.  Maybe I'm filling it too quickly?  What's weird is, it appears to be filling in all squares or dots, depending on what I want, until I try to stop -- and then it goes haywire.

(in reply to gilg)
Post #: 78
RE: New Site! - 5/18/2008 9:51:01 AM   
bobevers

 

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From: United States
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The site looks nice, but the I have a few issues:
- The box to select a number in sudokuis gone and now for every field that I want to fill in I have to click twice, in the past only once (I used to fill in first the 1, than 2, then 3, 4 etc), please reinstate the box to select a number
- the large multi sudoku does not fit on my screen(1280x800) anymore even in the smallest size, this was never a problem.
- also for other items (largest pix-a-pix), this is an issue. It would probably be better to move the line with all the options to the left
- the sounds for every click make me crazy and I have to switch it off every time, please keep this setting

Bob

(in reply to msmccorrie14)
Post #: 79
RE: New Site! - 5/18/2008 10:06:50 AM   
lekahe

 

Posts: 2737
Joined: 1/22/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:


The site looks nice, but the I have a few issues:
- The box to select a number in sudokuis gone and now for every field that I want to fill in I have to click twice, in the past only once (I used to fill in first the 1, than 2, then 3, 4 etc), please reinstate the box to select a number
- the large multi sudoku does not fit on my screen(1280x800) anymore even in the smallest size, this was never a problem.
- also for other items (largest pix-a-pix), this is an issue. It would probably be better to move the line with all the options to the left
- the sounds for every click make me crazy and I have to switch it off every time, please keep this setting

Bob


I have just learned that you can also fill using keyboard. See Placing and deleting numbers (Keyboard: numerical keys)
It's actually very fast :)

the other issues have been noted and will be looked into.

Leena

(in reply to bobevers)
Post #: 80
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